Environmental Activism on the Ground

Speaker 0 00:00:02 <inaudible> Speaker 1 00:00:13 Welcome to the California table. I'm Betty Yee. We will be meeting people from our diverse regions of California who are creating their own tables to tackle some of the most pressing issues of our time, community voices, gathering, coming together to speak up for themselves, to take charge of their own lives, to fight for themselves. This is the California table. Speaker 0 00:00:39 <inaudible> Speaker 1 00:00:53 True and lasting environmental justice. What is it? What does it look like? The U S environmental protection agency defines environmental justice as the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people, regardless of race, color, national origin, or income, with respect to the development, implementation and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations and policies, fair treatment, meaning no one group of people bears a disproportionate share of negative environmental burdens, meaningful involvement. We're affected communities have the opportunity to participate in decision-making. So their concerns are heard and addressed. There has been progress to enhance the understanding and address the impacts of climate change, pollution and poverty in low-income communities, communities of color, indigenous communities and immigrant communities in California. State agencies have placed environmental justice prominently in their planning, engagement, and decisions, and have employed the science data and community informed strategies in their work facilitated by the state environmental justice screening tool called how and virus screen to assess and identify those communities bearing the greatest impacts and burdens of air, water, and land pollution. Speaker 1 00:02:45 A few weeks ago, president Biden declared January 27th, 2021 climate day at the white house signing a number of executive orders to obtain environmental and catalyze economic opportunity. These executive orders include a commitment that federal agencies incorporate environmental justice in their missions to address adverse impacts on disproportionately affected communities, build sustainable infrastructure, invest in a clean energy future and create good paying union jobs deliver 40% of benefits from federal investments to these communities and establish a national environmental justice screening tool modeled after Cal and virus screen. While these commitments are promising, securing true and lasting environmental justice must also tackle racial injustice or many communities of color and indigenous communities, including those here in California. The two basic tenants of environmental justice, fair treatment and meaningful involvement still elude them. <inaudible> joining us here on the California table. Today are Fe Wilson, Kennedy and Nigella Pope hardened founding members of the red, black and green environmental justice coalition. Faye is also a member of the Sacramento poor people's campaign and serves as co-chair of the California Sacramento poor people's campaign. Both groups have been working to address environmental justice issues. Welcome to both of Speaker 2 00:04:51 You, Speaker 1 00:04:53 Red, black, and green. These are the colors of the Pan-African flag adopted by the universal Negro improvement association in New York in 1920 as a symbol of black liberation. Why was it important to name the coalition, the red, black, and green environmental justice coalition, and tell our listeners about the meaning of each of these three colors. Speaker 2 00:05:17 Sure. Uh, I'm going to start in the igloo, please jump in. So the colors are very significant and thank you for giving that the bit of historical. So the red stands for the blood, the people lost in the struggle, or you can think of, of the blood that, that run through our vein green stands for the land, uh, the land of the Homeland or the land in which we live in now. And then of course, black signifies the color of the folks that are part of the African diaspora. And so we thought it was just feeding that we call her sippy red, black, and green environmental justice issue. Yeah, absolutely. I think we also just want it to have a space where black folks to talk about environmental issues that are specific to the black community. And we wanted to kind of make it a space where that's called out kind of explicitly. Speaker 3 00:06:10 Right, right. Uh, so let me ask you, what are the organizations that comprise the coalition and really when you think about the traditional environmental movement, it's been mostly a white movement. And so I'm wanting to just ask both of you, what does environmental justice mean to you? How do you define it? Speaker 2 00:06:30 So for me, right? One of the reasons why I really, why I'm really drawn to environmental justice work is because it really is about the environment. So a lot of the traditional environmental groups are talking about air quality, water, quality, land, use transportation, and environmental justice. You talk about all of that, the same, but for me, it's rooted in, when I walk outside of my house, what am I walking into? So environmental justice also includes things like illegal dumping as street cleaning up and making sure we have access to parks. And it also includes things like, you know, the criminal justice system and making sure that our communities are safe, but they from policing. And so I think environmental justice is really like for me, this all encompassing kind of issue where we're just talking about when people walk outside of their house, what's kind of what kind of environment are they walking into. Speaker 3 00:07:23 Right. Right. So it's really just what you're confronted with as you're leaving your door. Right. And what's around you. Okay. Speaker 2 00:07:31 The different groups that came together, most of us were part of the founding members. We're all part of different organizations. So for myself, uh, as you mentioned earlier, I was part of the poor people's campaign, but also a member of the Sacramento area, black caucus, which is a 40 plus year organization. So myself and bill Johnson represents the sacraments of the black caucus. We have Jackie Cole, she's part of a group called venerable goods at the time. Uh, Tony, uh, Joella Tony worked for the city of Sacramento. I see me on Gantt and Tyrone netters, um, work for green tech Academy. So, and then not only was her group. So we all came from different, uh, green, some informal sense as nonprofits in so many informal sense. And we just saw a need. And I said to create this space where we can come together and then create a space where we can bring the community together to address those particular issues in the past, the black caucus. And now ULA was a part of those in the past, the black caucus have had community gathering, specifically talking about environmental justice issues, um, helping people understand or simple ways that they can get involved. And I think that's the most important thing we have to break the information down so will understand it. And so people can figure out, Oh, I can do this. I can get involved in this, in everything. So that's been a big emphasis of, for me in the Sacramento area, black caucus, as well as the poor people's campaign. Speaker 3 00:09:07 Sure. Thank you for that. A lot of history here, certainly with many of these civil rights and human rights organizations, you've been both been involved with. Let me just ask you in terms of the intersection between civil rights and human rights and environmental justice, as Nigella pointed out earlier, environmental justice, certainly about what you're living every day and what you're confronted with in your surroundings, but how does this fit into the larger civil rights and human rights movement? Speaker 2 00:09:37 Well, they intersect and you almost can't particularly now that we're living with COVID, you can't discuss once without acknowledging and understanding from a historical perspective. So black folks, Brown folks, and then poor people have historically been left out of the discussion and left out of receiving the necessary resources to address those issues that impact them on a daily life. So when I talked about, uh, illegal dumping, and when we talk about air quality and things like that, that impacts people of color, poor people, um, much more. And then people who have a health issues much more profoundly. And we see this playing out with the COVID crisis. So we see, uh, black and Brown folks being infected and dying from the virus because we have multiple health issues that we're not able to survive because then we don't have access to health. We don't have access to quality healthcare. And then we live in community where traffic is a mass where people don't have access to green space where people don't have access to quality foods. Many of us live deserts and can't walk in our community. So I'm going to stop. And at night you will continue to talk about that because she's really good breaking it down. Speaker 2 00:11:03 Um, yeah, I, I actually don't have anything to add. I think it's just, the intersections are so important and we're living. I mean, there's the Audrey Lorde quote that says we don't eat live single issue lives, the community aren't dealing with single issues and especially where like civil rights, um, human rights and environmental justice, it all is speaking. It all speaks to the same thing. And it all gets to, um, the fact that we have to have a more holistic and intentional and multi-pronged approach, um, to solutions for people for low income communities and people of color to help them be able to have a better quality of life. So both my Elan, I live in a neighborhood where public transportation is a challenge. So in order for people really to access public transportation, so there is no light rail station near us. You have to get in your car to drive to the light rail station, uh, to, to access the bus. Speaker 2 00:12:03 You have to walk. So once you reach a certain point after you get out of the neighborhood, there's sidewalks in the neighborhood. Then there, there are street lights, but once you get on the main thoroughfare, 65th expressway to walk over to what we would call the old floor and mall, it's dark, you don't have street lights, there's not sidewalks. So even if people wanted to access public transportation, it is not safe for them to do that. It is as far for them to do that. So in the wet, in the rain and in the heat, you know how hot it gets in Sacramento. So you have all those barriers could prevent people from really using public transportation. That really then if P if more people start using public transportation and not using the cars with all the mission, then that will have a, a more positive impact on our health. But because of those barriers that I talked about, the problem become very circular in everything. So you have to solve one problem in order to address another problem in order to then solve that problem. Speaker 3 00:13:10 The intersectionality is very important and quite clear, uh, Fe you mentioned something that really struck me in that is there's a whole history here. And as you were describing, certainly some of the neighborhoods, which you find just so many of these deficiencies, frankly, you know, lack of transportation to help with mobility and accessing services, food deserts, and more, it brings me back to a time in history where many black people were able to establish themselves in communities were faced with redlining, but they were having to be in areas where there weren't the safest conditions around. So this is not a new phenomenon. This is really rooted in a lot of the racial discrimination that took place over the course of our history. And, and so, as we think about this, I really appreciate it. You raising this, this is something that has been historical and not a new phenomenon, but yet when you tackle this, it has to be done smartly in terms of just understanding the interrelationship of all of these issues, Speaker 2 00:14:12 Right? And we're really lucky here in Sacramento, we have a full sociologist, Dr. Hayes's Fernandez that does an excellent presentation about the historical significance of red lining and neighborhoods and how the red Laney, uh, leads to segregation, and then how that then impacts people education. So he's able to really help people understand that it's not just one single issue is something historical and how we really need to begin to addressing that and helping people understand that. So for, for Nigel and I, the whole Stockton corridor, why there's such a large unhoused population, there's reasons why. And until we understand that as a city and as an Israel, as a community, and then as a nation, uh, housing, um, really determined your quality of life. So all of us, my assumption that all of us on this call were housed. So we have, we drink, we can keep ourselves warm, we have access to landlines. Speaker 2 00:15:22 We have access to a refrigerator. If you're unhoused, you have access to none of that. Um, and oftentimes you don't, they're not folks who are unhoused are not even getting sued, uh, on a regular basis, uh, where they can sustain themselves in. And many of them are living. When we talk about illegal dumping, the unhoused is living illegal dumping sites. Uh, you just can't even imagine. So it's all of those things that people really have to look at to understand w w we will not, you and I, and the real black ingredient coalition, talk about environmental justice. You have to go deep. You have to remember your shift's tree. So when you began talking about solutions, you have to really understand what the solutions have to address in everything. Speaker 3 00:16:11 That's a critical piece of the solutions and the, and, and looking forward in terms of really tackling the whole of the issue. Now, you like your activism has received a good deal of attention, and really is how I came to know you from afar. Tell our listeners what's the catalyst for your activism was Speaker 2 00:16:31 That's a hard one, because I think I grew up in a family that, um, we're all involved civically involved activists in their own, right? And so I think just growing up as a young black child, I took for granted, everything I learned in school told me that black people just have to fight for their rights. And that was kind of the atmosphere that I was kind of raised then. And my parents really fought for me to go to predominantly white schools in Sacramento. And it just got really infuriating to see what I had the hurdles that I had to jump over every day, compared to my counterparts in a way that, that really sickening and maddening and infuriating, I had to touch multiple buses to get to school. And other folks were just taking that for granted. And so I think, you know, that's the catalyst. And then I also in, in the neighborhood that I grew up in it that, you know, me and say live in just being clear that other folks in my neighborhood didn't have that opportunity. And just feeling really called to have to advocate in spaces that I was allowed in. It was very clear that I was, um, what, like the personable black person, right? The black person, they were comfortable letting in the room. And every time I try and make my voice as loud and as uncomfortable for everyone. Um, so they know what South Speaker 4 00:17:50 Sacramento, they exactly, they understand these things, the folks in the South Sacramento, as well as I can share Speaker 3 00:17:56 It is all about lifting your voice for sure. Elevating your voices. You had a really wonderful victory with organizing around a natural gas project and say a little bit about that, because this is a, I found that so inspiring in terms of just the sheer determination and tenacity to just fight this project. And I think this is something that really was such a, such a game changer in terms of just seeing how sometimes for activists and the neighborhood and for community organizing, to be able to just take on some big, powerful interests and to be able to succeed is something that oftentimes it feels unattainable, but you did it. Speaker 4 00:18:39 Yeah. I just want to preface this story with, while I think this is such an amazing feat. I also am a lot of times disheartened that we don't have more major wins, um, along, along these lines because other communities need this as well. But, um, in 2008, 2000 and 2008 before the economic crisis, um, Sacramento natural gas came around my neighborhood and not even my full neighborhood, just a couple of blocks in my neighborhood asking for mineral rights, um, to be able to pump natural gas under the community. And the neighborhood is mostly low income, a bunch of people with color, all living together. Um, also high renters. A lot of the folks living in the neighborhood are renters. And so what you found was a lot of the home owners were, um, signing over mineral rights. And a lot of folks were really happy to get that economic boost in the middle of, you know, everyone losing jobs and, and things, the stock market going pretty crazy, few people got together and said, you know, let's slow down. Speaker 4 00:19:43 Let's figure out what the environmental impacts are and how is it going to affect our health. And it ended up being a five year battle to try and stop this gas company from being able to pump natural gas under our home. And they weren't talking about just like putting it into containers or having any safeguards. They literally just wanted to pump gas under the settlement under like our homes in the, into the settlement. Um, and it was a great, like organizing effort. We ended up having to pull together a coalition of like advocacy groups, lawyers, uh, researchers, to be able to help us in it. It was like a lot of folks call it a David versus Goliath kind of effort, because it really did take a lot of effort from a community that didn't necessarily have the skillset, but just had the passion to be able to pull this effort off. Initially when we started people would look at and their eyes would glass over and even if they didn't understand, or they didn't understand. And then the game changer for us, unfortunately, to the detriment Speaker 2 00:20:48 Of a community in the Bay area, San Bruno happened, you know, there was a neighborhood and there was some deaths and some parts of the neighborhood was, um, level. I think after that people began to make the connection to what we were talking about. And it, it became much easier conversation for us because before people were kind of like saying, you're, over-exaggerating, you know, they're really not going to do this. And, you know, yeah. They were going to do this. So we really got involved. We built our capacity. We, we, which mean we have to understand what gas migration was with all of these technical terms that, that, you know, we weren't necessarily scientists. You know, we were just everyday people going to work, trying to make a living to pay our bills, pay our, you know, pay our bread, pay our mortgage. So we had to, we had to push up our sleeves and induce and conduct research, and then coalesce with each other, putting together groups. Speaker 2 00:21:47 We went down to San Francisco to the, uh, uh, regulatory agencies, several times to testify. We built coalitions with people, not only in Sacramento around this issue, but in grass Valley and surrounding areas. And then we came together. So this multinational company, you're the multinational, I think we probably have $4,500. So we didn't think we were going to win, but we knew we were gonna put up a fight. We knew we were going to struggle. We knew we, we, we knew what we could do. And we just told our story. We set out and we told our story. Uh, we just w if someone, w we got on the phone and we called up other neighborhood associations in district six, and we said, invite us to your meeting. We've talked to people in the grocery store. We've talked to people in writing. We would, we would talk to people anywhere. Speaker 2 00:22:44 They would listen to us about what was happening and a possibility, but what was even more shocking to me, I live three blocks from, from my, in his house. So the natural gas people will say, Oh, that's not going to affect you. And I'm like saying, if something happens to them, something is going to happen to me. And where I live. Do you, do you just not understand that? So it was a wonderful learning opportunity, but not like Layla said, we should not have even been doing this. They would not propose this. If it was in the fabulous forties, if it was in green Haven, if it was in fair Oaks, you name any neighborhood in Sacramento or any community that's considered middle-class upper middle class. This project would not have been proposed there. They thought they were going to come in, because like I said, we were low income, predominantly people of color, and they didn't realize that we were going to fight back with everything we had. And the change get game changer for us was San Bruno. Speaker 3 00:23:54 You must remember the day when the California public utilities commission took that though, to reject the project, just share with our listeners. Just what was top of mind for you to have that moment? Speaker 2 00:24:09 We went up on a bus. We were in good spirits. And when we arrived, we saw all of these people that we didn't know. Right. So we didn't realize one of our partner organization organized people from the Bay area. And they joined us there and they came to support us. And we still didn't think we were going to win. And, and they took testimonies from the dissenting group first. And so we had to listen to all of that testimony. Then they took customer money from us, and then we, and then they talk, but we still didn't think we had one. And matter of fact, when they, you know, they were using some terminology that we didn't necessarily understand. And then when they, when they, when calling and their attorneys and other one said to us, we won, we, we were supposed to be quiet and we all jumped up and were clapping and we were crying. Speaker 2 00:25:07 And we just couldn't believe if you had asked us before we bought at that bus, that we think we were going to win. Probably half the people when I would have been included would have said, no, but we were going there because we knew we had the moral high ground. We knew we were doing the moral thing. And I don't mean moral in a, in a religious way. I mean, moral, that it was morally wrong for this moral, this, this multinational company to try to take advantage of us based upon our class and our race and our educational level, uh, it was morally wrong. And that I think, because we were able to tell our story so good. And because of the San Bruno, all of those things really help. Um, the regulatory commission really understand that they could, they could not in good conscience do this. Speaker 2 00:26:03 And the other thing that was really frightened to me, I have a healthcare background, a health educator. We had young women who are young childbearing age, like Naiela, we have a lot of elderly people and no one could tell us what would be the long-term or even short-term health, health effects on folks. You know, no one could tell us that. And we would ask that and they would get angry with us. And, you know, like, why do you need to know why I need to know that, you know, that's something that's really important that do you think they would brush us off if we had been from upper middle-class neighborhood? No, they would have found that information out for the day we won. Speaker 4 00:26:45 Um, that was a high. That was amazing. Um, same, I don't think I ever really thought we would win. And especially not that soon, one thing is we were told that this may be a 10 year fight. So this happened here, five. So I think it was just, even though we had been doing it for five years, it felt setted. It felt fast. It was, it was exhilarating. But then I almost immediately, like when we got home, it wasn't as if every problem was solved in our community. We had fought off his gas company, but we still had just had buses taken away. We still are in a food desert. Like it was sobering to come back off of this high wind and then be like, Oh, but you know, we are in the same community. Speaker 3 00:27:28 So for both of you and Faye, again, your just, I think not to be minimized, but telling your stories is so powerful. If for nothing else you own that that's your experience. No one can take that away from you. And I just got to think that was a big part of, uh, how you were able to try and fear and just to be able to let your voices be heard about the, the concerns and, and certainly your experience, you know, living under these conditions, congratulations to both of you for your tenacity, but to <inaudible> point, these are fights that really should not be happening. And is one of many still to come Speaker 0 00:28:16 <inaudible> Speaker 3 00:28:36 Both of you have made reference to just increasing your capacity, to be able to organize your neighbors and to take on challenges. And I want to delve into that a little bit more, because I think oftentimes when people are faced with significant hurdles to cross, they feel a bit hopeless because they don't believe they have the skills to really overcome them. And so I want to ask each of you, did you ever doubt that you have the skills to be a change agent for your community? Speaker 4 00:29:06 I would say yes and no. I know that my role is to speak solely about the experiences of growing up in South back and now raising a son in South Sacramento. And I do not necessarily want other skills. I don't, I say all the time, I don't need to know how many parts per million of nitrogen or hydrogen or whatever is in the water. All I need to know is that when I drink the water out of my faucet, it doesn't taste right. And I can find all the people who can do the testing. Um, so yeah, that's, that's my stance. I, I don't have all the skills don't want all the skills. I just want to be able to speak authentically. Speaker 5 00:29:45 Thank you. How about you Speaker 2 00:29:49 For me? I needed to understand and build my capacity around. Particularly we we're dealing with the, um, with the, with the Sacramento, natural gas, around gas migration and different things. So when I told my story, I could use some of those same language as well as then build a capacity of my community members. And so sometimes people will say, well, what's gas migration. I said, well, I just mean whether it's gas or water or whatever it moves. That's all. It means. It just moves. I came from a public health background organizing from Sacramento to the central Valley, where we wanted to build a capacity of community members. So he could help this. So they could help determine their own health in one way, you do that and build their capacity around language, around understanding particular issues and breaking it down. So when they do go advocate for themselves, cause that's the most important that each person be an advocate for themselves, it was illegal. Speaker 2 00:30:50 Dumping was a big issue. So in legalese, it said you have to come back to issues in our community. Illegal dumping was still happening. So we were playing community cleanup. This was of course before COVID where we would get together. And we would walk through the neighborhood and pick up the trash with gloves, with it, with the grabbers, and then the stuff that was too large, where we couldn't pick up, we would phone it in to the city of Sacramento, uh, the two, one, one system and everything. So building people's capacity that they may be poor financially, but everyone has the ability to do a, B and C. Uh, you may not, even if you, even if you're senior, you may not be able to bend down, but we're going to give you a grabber and you're going to partner you with a person that can bend down. Speaker 2 00:31:42 Or even if you're in a wheelchair, someone can push you and be a part of that cleanup. Uh, so we would, you know, we would do different things like that. And so we actually talked to people that even in Colbert, you can still do cleanup, even though we're in the middle of COVID right now, I still do community to clean up. It's on a much smaller scale. I drive through my community when I see illegal dumping, I call it back, you know? And so it's different things like that, that we're constantly trying to build, uh, individuals as well as groups capacity that they have a chain. They, they can be a change agent. And sometimes people don't even realize you're a change agent, right? Speaker 4 00:32:24 I want to happen and say it it's super important to that while we're building communities capacity to also be working with the folks with power and so that we don't have to speak their language, like they have also have to learn to speak our, and it's really important when we're in those spaces to be encouraging them to say like, you know, we may not know all the terms, but when we come to you still value and listen to what we have to say. And I think we've also done a really good job of making sure that at least our elected representatives know that we may not be able to speak what you speak, but when we talk, we mean business. Speaker 3 00:33:02 Yeah. Thank you for that now, you'll I was just going to pose that question about how do you, uh, bring the skills of the community to decision makers, because this is something that we know that ultimately, you know, those who are in those positions are going to have significant influence and impact on the community. And so thank you. Thank you for that. Uh, how, how do you help community members actually vision how their lives could be improved? I mean, I know that, you know, when you're actually doing neighborhood cleanups and you're coming together and yeah, certainly can see some, um, you know, instant results, more short-term results about, um, their work and their effort that, um, just in terms of kind of a long-term view about a vision of what they believe their community could look like, how, how, how, how do you help the community members envision those solutions Speaker 4 00:33:52 We're working on, um, the Morrison Creek project, which we're trying to turn a half mile about a half mile, um, channelized Creek into a walkable bikeable path. And along the Creek, there's also these huge vacant lot. And one of the things we returned told really early on was just, you know, get asked for, ask for a Porsche. It was the quote asked for a porch. We may only be able to get you a Toyota, but ask us for a porch. And so for, you know, we go out to the community and we say, you know, what do you guys want? If we could turn this Creek, what do we want to see? And I would say it probably took a year of just coaching because there's so much mistrust, there's so much, you know, historical like times where, you know, government and cities haven't responded to. Speaker 4 00:34:39 And so people were just like, let's clean it. You know, like we don't care, let's just unlock the cakes. Um, and it really took a lot of coaching and trust building to say, like, let's, let's just shoot for the moon. Let's ask for a Porsche here and looking at other creeks and other communities, it took a lot of visioning exercises around, you know, let's not think of a Creek in our backyard, but let's plan a vacation to another state. And we want to walk on a Creek what those on that Creek. And I mean, it was just such a learning experience about just how much mistrust and how hard it was for folks to just imagine better. Because for so long, these communities have just been so like resource strapped and just pillage. Speaker 3 00:35:27 No, exactly. And the, and this goes back to the history that Faye was speaking about when we began our conversation, that these were, you know, promises of economic that never were realized. And so, uh, that mistrust is quite deep, it's standing. And so to be able to just move the community, to be able to see, you know, what is possible and that they can take claim to, I think is, is remarkable that must've taken a bit of time to do, but I'm happy to hear that because you also are really in the driver's seat about visioning your own future around Morrison Creek, which is exciting. Speaker 2 00:36:04 What's interesting though, is if, if folks, a lot of folks are don't necessarily have that lens or understanding. So when you originally go to a community and you say, you can have whatever you want, what do you want? And can the community says, I dunno, just unlock the gate. A lot of agencies are watching the land. Well, that's what the community said they wanted. And so it really takes like a level of intentionality and understanding that historical context. Like, we just need more of that, where we can like, and build trust with each other and listening. One of the things we would do every year, the two neighborhood association, a couple of times a year would co-host things together for, for national night out. We built in an activity for children and families to talk about call. They envision that particular area. What would you like to see there? Speaker 2 00:36:53 And you can either verbally tell us, you can draw it. You can create a poem. And then we turn, particularly if they drew, if they wrote something out, then returned it into a quilt using paper and yarn. And we built this quilt and then we hung it up. So everyone could visually see that everyone has a role to play. And everyone had an opportunity to provide input in, in that. And so you saw, you saw three-year-olds and you saw school ages, she saw teenagers. She saw parents. You saw grandparents, you saw Anthony, you saw uncle, everyone participating and talking about, we want to move beyond just unlocking the gate. We want to see flowers there. We want to see charging stations there. We want to see benches there. We want to see a table there. You know, it was like, and as people were writing and we were listening, I could visualize what was, what they were saying and, and really what they were saying. They wanted a safe place that was clean. That was beautiful and colorful. So I was like, apart to me, face to me. Yeah, Speaker 3 00:38:07 Exactly. Both of you are the roll up your sleeves, get the job done, really immersed in your communities. And I'm curious about the capacity of the coalition itself. Tell us about the resources of the red, black, and green environmental justice coalition and what the member organizations bring to the table. This is mostly volunteer driven, or are you able to raise necessary funds to hire staff? Speaker 2 00:38:32 So we are definitely a volunteer organization. I'm probably, I'm the only one that's retired. No one else has full-time jobs. You know, trying to make enough money to pay their own bills. Our next step will be to look at the possible funding opportunities we have since our existence, since the fall of 2019, we've done at least two zoom forums. And once we're past the virus, we're going to, we want to hit the streets again to really engage people. So our capacity is limited because we don't have any paid staff. It's probably six of us. And under six, um, most of them are working either full-time jobs or part-time job. And I think we have one graduate student. Uh, and one of the things I really appreciate about the group is that I'm the old G and a group. They all are young. They're enthusiastic, you're talented. I feel so comfortable if I, if I called up, sent them an email saying, I want to take a break. They, they can move on without me. They can carry the torch without me. Speaker 3 00:39:42 I was just going to ask both of you in the years that you have been working with your community, how has community organizing changed over that time? And perhaps it is that we are seeing more younger organizers picking up the mantle and any other changes that you've observed. Speaker 2 00:39:59 So I've been organizing for about 10 to 12 years. And I just wonder what some of those fights would have looked like in this climate. I mean, with everything that happened last summer, around racial justice, it has just changed. I had folks calling me saying, Hey, three years ago, when you were talking about equity, is this what you were talking about? This is it. So the landscape of organizing has just changed where before you were just convincing people. Now, now they see it. They really, I think a lot more folks realizing what's going on and now it's really just get to dilution. Yeah, for me, it looks totally different. How I got involved in sort of the organizing was a young person, my husband and I, who were, we were students, young college students, in fact state. And we joined the black caucus in the mid seventies. Speaker 2 00:40:49 We had no internet. We had no cell phone, which he had was a tie right. Of a menial grasp machine and a landline and paper I'm serious, you know, and I'm not embarrassed to tell my age. I'm 66 years old. We had to do, we had to, like our technology was, was, was electric typewriter. I mean, that was our technology. It took us longer to reach people. We did a lot more face face-to-face work. So I think as a young college student, that's, it's hilarious till this day, I was assigned to do leafleting at churches in Oak park, in Del Paso Heights. And I can tell you to this day, you know, the codes and where those churches are located, uh, you know, you would, you would drive up, parked your car and get out and leaflet the cars, or you would hand them a flyer and different stuff like that. Now I can send an email and reach thousands of people, millions of people in those days, you know, all you had was like a landline. Things have changed so much for the better than I think the young generation will go much further because the ability to use technology, the ability to communicate with Twitter with Instagram, with Snapchat technology has moved us to a new level. Speaker 3 00:42:16 Well, this is really a great development, I think, where we have heightened awareness of the inequities and certainly when it comes to racial equity and justice and how that has completely come on to a global consciousness and couple that with technology. And I'd like to think that where we are now in, particularly with the involvement of younger activists, is that perhaps we will reach lasting racial equity and justice in a shorter period of time. Speaker 2 00:42:44 <inaudible> Speaker 3 00:42:57 I want to turn to just speaking a little bit about the meaning of equity injustice. When we're talking about living in communities that have disproportionately been affected by decision after decision, even when the decisions are revolve around just issues that are good for the greater community. And, you know, for example, when we talk about economic development in a particular area, I think the idea of investing in communities is a good one, but oftentimes, you know, those benefits aren't necessarily evenly spread. And so let me just first ask each of you, you know, how do you look at the, this whole notion of, um, being sure that you are going to be the beneficiaries of some of the improvements that are part of larger decisions and some of this you've already spoken about that it is in a way trying to have you perhaps inform some of the decision makers about what they need to take into account when they're thinking about large investments into communities or other decisions that are meant to make improvements in communities, but to be mindful about some of perhaps the unintended consequences. Speaker 2 00:44:08 Yeah, because that's one of the issues. One of the things we're struggling with with our Morrison Creek project, the Morrison Creek project is happening 200, 300 feet from where some of the largest marijuana grow facilities. And one of our biggest fears is we're going to turn this as beautiful, this Creek into a beautiful walkable bikeable path, that if there's going to be riding up and down to their wonderful cutting jobs, and we're going to completely displace the overhead, and there's a fear around like, do we even want to do this project? How shiny do we want to make this project? There's like the concept that when you invest in, in disadvantaged communities, you don't make projects super shiny so that it attracts, you know, um, so that it attracts other folks, you just do innovation just enough, but not enough to attract anybody. And so I think it's a little cynical and it's unfortunate. Speaker 2 00:44:59 And I think part of it is we need to make sure that communities are a part of every part of the planning process right now. You know, we get community input in the beginning oftentimes, and then it's never, never come back, but we really need to start like implementing checks and balances. Like community gives input in the beginning. Then we come back and we check and we make sure it's still on track or we provide progress. I think it's really important to create like more community between, you know, folks that are actually with the lived experience and some of the decision-makers and more communication. Speaker 3 00:45:35 Yes. That's a great point because oftentimes when we talk about community engagement, it is quite limited. It's not throughout the entirety of a particular initiative that relate to, it's almost a check off the box kind of activity and then not really sustain ongoing community input and response Fe, did you have thoughts? Speaker 2 00:45:56 Sure. I see for me the whole idea of economic development, like naive, it can be very misleading for people. Or so for example, when they said we're going to build a low-income housing or low-income apartments in the neighborhood, I think that's a great idea, but who's defining what low income is. So if the average rent, in fact in Sacramento is based on the average rent in Sacramento is $1,800. So, you know, that's a lot of money to pay for, to rent. I, you know, I try to tell people if you're paying $1,800 a month, you know, we need to be trying to connect you with someone to help you buy your place, whether it's a house condo, duplex. So the whole economic development really needs to be looked at and defined who's defining economic development. And then the other thing that we need to really talk about is that often time economic development does not benefit those neighborhoods in which they were created to do that. And we're beginning to see that with the whole Aggie square that's happening on the outskirts of Oak park and district six, where we live. So how is that going to impact the folks on in Oak park and district 60? And I think sometimes in our rush to do things we're not fully thinking through how it's really going to impact folks, or you take something away from non neighborhood and then you leave another neighborhood without the resources. So for example, the Speaker 4 00:47:30 Library, the books like Isla, and I love, I serve on the board of the library, colonial Heights library. It was built in our neighborhood on Stockton Boulevard, but that means right now, there is no library in old cars. So we, we build something from one neighborhood, but then another neighborhood that definitely was impacted that was poor. They don't have a library. So, so is that, is that really economic development for hoop? Speaker 3 00:48:00 Right. Right. So economic development for some means economic displacement for others. Speaker 4 00:48:07 And that's just the story of almost every resource. Cause when we fought for, to get the bus restored back to our neighborhood, they said, okay, well we restore your bus and what other community loses a bus? And it's frustrating that they're always pitting, uh, neighborhoods against each other. Speaker 3 00:48:25 So Diana on that point, so much attention now on the whole concept of inclusion and, and what we're talking about is actually more of a trade-off. And so tell me kind of your perspective about what true inclusion really means. It just seems to me that this is always the debate about, you know, you, you bring services and amenities to one, um, part of the community and yet it has to be at the expense of the other. I mean, and how does that fit into the whole inclusion frame? That seems to be so on top of, you know, informing a lot of decisions today Speaker 4 00:48:58 And, you know, I think it's important that we're asking who has the power to make these decisions who's going to be most affected by these decisions. Does this group have power in any part of the process, um, to intervene, is anyone accountable to this group and how is it going to affect other communities? Because from, from the organizing that I've, I've been doing, there's not one community that wants something at the expense of another. And so everyone wants to work collaboratively together. And I think part of it is there's not really a full understanding of what all the resources are when we were doing our Morrison Creek. We were just fighting for, we're just fighting for, you know, it's a turn our Creek into a walkable bicycle path. We had a conversation with folks along the American river and they said, well, the city is actively trying to revamp our bag path. Speaker 4 00:49:51 They actively want to talk to us about how we can turn, you know, how we can improve different parts of our path. Why don't we use those resources for you guys? And that's something that we had no idea was even happening. We had no idea that while they're telling us they can't make improvements on our portion of the Creek, but they're having conversations, proactive conversations with communities that don't even necessarily want their projects. So I think it's really important for communities to come together and kind of talk about the ways that we're bidding being pitted against each other and communities that have more power being willing to give some of that up. So that communities that have been, Speaker 2 00:50:28 That haven't been invested in can at least have some type of bare minimum of amenities and resources. Speaker 3 00:50:36 Yes, yes. So this really speaks to the formation of almost a new and different types of political alliances then. So a little different from the traditional coalition building across communities, but really having a, those communities that have been at the receiving end of some benefits and amenities, to be able to partner with, uh, other communities that have gone without. So I liked that idea about just the formation of new political alliances. That's that can be very powerful. Faye. You spoke about libraries earlier, and this is something now you lay at the beginning of our conversation do spoke about coming back from the decision that day that the public utilities commission made their decision on the natural gas project. And just seeing that the realities of life still confront you, whether it's looking at lack of transportation, which means lack of access to services, safe housing, living in food deserts and the like, and I'm wondering, you know, as you take on each of these challenges, you know, challenge by challenge, um, how do you think about approaching this work perhaps differently so that when you are able to overcome each of these, that each step of the way you're building more community resiliency and more importantly, building community voice, that's going to be lasting. Speaker 3 00:51:55 I mean, do you have to create a new campaign each time you have a new issue or, I mean, how do we really give the community the power to actually do self-determination then to be able to even generate the resources for being more resilient? Speaker 2 00:52:11 I really think every, each person has to be willing to re-imagine things done differently and reimagined that all of us have a right to the same access to resources. So one of the things that we say in the poor people's campaign, we want to fight poverty, not the poor. And I, and I, and, and currently I always use this as an example in Sacramento, right now we have over 5,000 people who are unhoused, if 5,000 people in Sacramento or any city lost their homes to a fire or to flooding the city would do, they would move mountains to get those people housed. Our city, our County, our country just can't seem to Marshall together. Those resources to get people housed. We can find money for war. We can find money for the police. We can find money for the share. We can find money for whatever, but we can get people's house. Speaker 2 00:53:16 We can, you know, we can find money for war, but we can't pay. Our teachers teach a decent wage. So it's things like that. So we have to we'd imagine how we're going, share these resources. And we have to stop like many of us sit with the stop PD neighborhoods against neighborhoods, but to stop pitting the house against the unhoused. So many people don't realize most of two years ago, when we had to shut down, we realize that people can miss one paycheck. They're doing okay. If they miss one paycheck where people are missing two and three paychecks, then they realize that they are facing eviction, whether they were renting or paying their mortgage, that many of us, most of us are only one or two paychecks away from being unhoused or itself. So all of our best interests to, to really say we have the, the resources have to be re-looked at. And we imagine because you're not gonna, you're not gonna convince me if at the end of the day on January 26th and January 27th, 5,000 people who was currently housed in their house, an apartment lost and due to a flooding of fire, that RC would not step up and provide them some type of housing. Speaker 2 00:54:36 That's all we have. We have to reimagine how things work and just keep pushing forward and keep pushing forward and just keep and keep telling the elected officials there, the resources are there, the resources are there, you just have to reimagine, how are we going to use these resources? Speaker 6 00:54:53 Is it a reimagination or a reprioritization? Okay. Speaker 2 00:54:56 Both it's both. And, and Lee and ours and our elected officials have to be willing to take risks. They have to start thinking about what if I do a, I may not be able to run if I'm a city council person. And I do a, I may not be able to run for the assembly, or I may not be able to run for the Senate, do your job that you were elected to do, whether you are a city council person, whether you're a school board member, whether you on the water board, do your jobs, worry about how are you going to meet the needs of residents in your area. And I'm going to give you another example. So for example, I'm part of a group called the black parallel school board. We had been telling the Sacramento unified school district for years that you have a, they have a problem with access to technology and that they need to begin to address that issue. Speaker 2 00:55:53 That the kids that seniors are graduating from the high school, unless they're in special programs, you know, like West campus or my old high school Kennedy high school. But the kids who are at other schools are not able to graduate from high school and have the technology skills that they need in order to go on to college. They don't know how to keyboard. They don't know how to use the internet. They don't. So what happened 2019, 2020, 2019, we had to abruptly shut down the school. Most poor families and working class families, and most black and Brown family did not have access to the internet because they use, they use the ones that they had at work, or they use the one that they had at the library, but they didn't have access to that. Speaker 3 00:56:42 Hmm. So this is a lack of broadband access, internet access in urban Sacramento. We're not talking about rural California. Speaker 2 00:56:52 No. We're talking about people living in Oak park, this neighborhood, the night Isla, and I live in Del Paso Heights. They go and even folks in green Haven, we have friends in green Haven who have three children, right? Solidly middle class. There are three children cannot have, cannot be on the computer at the same time. They have to go out and get and purchase additional equipment, uh, in order for, you know, in order for their kids to be on the computer at the same time. So it's things like that. And when the, when the district did help the parents, they bought the cheapest, uh, thing, and you still cannot. Two kids from the same family can not be on the internet at the same time in the black community. We say, trust black women, there's the same real pop the community, the community, no, we couldn't. We told them four years ago, people don't have internet. It costs $150 a month for internet access, unless you turn your phone into a hotspot. So you're going to have a mother or a dad or a family choose between. I spend $150 on the internet. Do I spend $150 on food? So I put that hundred $50 towards my rent or mortgage. You know, most responsible parents are going to put towards a real mortgage or food, not on the internet. Speaker 3 00:58:12 Yes, yes, no. Those are choices. So very real choices that have to be made. Exactly. Exactly. Both of you have spoken about this now, Yella, I want to just address this to you. You work. Um, this is, uh, on top of the time that you're spending also with your son and family and, uh, this advocacy work is, um, uh, 24 seven. Uh, how, how, uh, I I'm struck by, uh, how this gets sustained over time. Um, obviously what does that mean in terms of being able to interface with your elected officials and, you know, being able to, uh, be sure that you can make, uh, public meetings and, and, uh, have the attention, you know, come to the community in that way. How do you think that can change for the better in terms of really, really having our representatives here, the community on a sustained basis? Speaker 2 00:59:11 Yeah. You know, I always feel silly bringing up this point because I'm really conscious that I am young and organizing, uh, 32. And so I, when I talk about the Speaker 4 00:59:22 Exhaustion, the very first time I crossed it out, how exhausting it was to be in one of these fights. Um, one of the women who she's now 95, she checked me and said, baby girl, you have no idea what Speaker 7 00:59:33 Tired is, which Speaker 4 00:59:35 So I say all that to say, but it is exhausting work, right? Because, and when we go back to like, what happened with the, with the specimen on natural gas, like even as a community, we won that came home and then had to fight for our best service to be restored. After we were able to win our bus back, we were fighting for a marijuana ordinance after fight after fight. So that's on a, on a community level, but then on a personal level, yeah. It's, I am a single mother raising a little black boy that I want to be as free as possible. Um, and so every day I make a decision, does his freedom mean that I am fighting city council at city hall to make sure that he has a free future or does freedom mean that I am on the ground playing blocks with him and, you know, pouring into him as much as I can every day I'm I'm having to make that decision. Speaker 4 01:00:26 What I do know is I have, I'm lucky enough to have the skillset, to be able to be invited into some of those rooms. And so I will continue to advocate for folks, um, in my neighborhood, but it's, it's not a decision that folks in, in some of the more affluent neighborhoods have to make, because their humanity is just automatic. They don't have to go to city hall and fight about illegal dumping or fight about wanting bus service restored or natural gas being pumped in. But those are things that I have to do. I have to take time out of my schedule. My community has to take time out of their schedule to do. And that is, I think what is maddening to me is I just, I often say if land park doesn't have to do it, I don't want to do it. And I shouldn't have to. Speaker 4 01:01:13 And I think we really need to have a leftist who understand that, who are representing our neighborhoods and understand that, that for some of these communities, I mean, sure we can show up and we can make a loud noise, but at what cost, because it's costing us more time, more resources than it is for other folks in more affluent neighborhoods. And we really need elected who will stand with us and be able to stand up for us. So I think that that's a huge part. I think we also need to figure out like we need to sustain coalitions. And one thing that, that's one thing that's beautiful about like the red, black and green coalition is that like they were saying earlier, we all have other jobs. Everyone is busy, but we can help divide that work a little bit better, um, and show up as needed. And I think just more coalition is needed. I think more groups. And I think also, um, more diverse groups as well, because I can say something to city council all day, someone from land park can say something to say the same thing and it'll be received completely differently. And so we need a bunch of folks saying the same thing. And over again, Speaker 2 01:02:20 Last thing I'll say on this, it's a base point. It needs to be like bold and imaginative. We can't just keep asking for Crohn's, but we really need to be talking about like, how do we just like make equity, a key principle in our city, everyone in the city saying that and lifting up that mantle. Speaker 3 01:02:39 Right? Exactly. Both of you continue to do this, um, work and organizing and, and you must continue to feel hopeful about what's possible for the future of the community. And I want to just ask each of you, do you think that moment of where just fighting issue after issue will disappear and that we can get to a point of where finally the voice and power of the community has been built up and lifted up and, and that, uh, inclusion and equity is part of every policy decision Speaker 2 01:03:10 For me because of my age, I don't think it will be in my lifetime because I think in sometimes people get angry with me. When I say this, I think we're a country unwilling to acknowledge the depth of systemic racism, classism. I think we kind of witnessed it, uh, on January 6th, 2021, when folks storm and raided the Capitol and folks were surprised. Black folks weren't surprised by Pino folks were in surprise. Indigenous folks were in surprise, progressive whites. Weren't surprised because we see how deep and how hateful and how, how deep racism is in terms of policy. We live it. We face it every single day. So I don't think we're going to be able to turn the clock really soon, but I think what can happen working in coalition with whether it's red, black, and green coalition, whether it's support people's campaign at the national level. Speaker 2 01:04:12 I think all of those group keeps pushing, keep pushing and keep pushing and keep remembering the history. It is so deep. I mean, I've seen some wonderful things happen in my lifetime. So I've seen gay folks get the right to marry, you know, who am I to tell folks they can marry? I had the opportunity to see Nelson Mandela come out of prison. None of us ever thought we would witness that. I had an opportunity to see our country apologized to the Japanese community for the concentration camps basically. So I've seen a lot. I seen the Southern white leadership church, apologize to the black folks, particularly in the South, how they retreated. So I witnessed a lot, but also we have a lot more to go my ILA life in her son's life. And my daughter's life around the same age should be fundamentally different. It is different from my lifetime, from the time I lived, but there might to be fundamentally different. I appreciate that. And Speaker 3 01:05:18 Certainly when you look at just what history has shown us, it is, um, uh, not surprising in terms of your, your outlook and your sense of hope for change. Now you led you, uh, your son now he is one years old. Is that right? Speaker 4 01:05:33 So he'll actually be two next month. I'm not ready. Speaker 3 01:05:41 That's terrific. It'll be the terrific twos. Okay. So we are celebrating black history month. And I wanted to just maybe see if you would just share a perspective about what you hope names' outlook about his community will be as he gets older. Obviously, you know, his mom is an activist leader and doing so much to bring improvements to the community, but what's your hope for him. And, and what is your hope for his outlook on his own community? Speaker 4 01:06:11 Almost a safe point, right? I'm not necessarily hopeful. I don't think that we're going to reach this utopia of equity in my lifetime or in my friends. But what I, I do hope is this site is different and easier. We're not fighting to be considered full humans. We're past the three fifth Mark. We're not fighting to fit anywhere we want at a lunch counter or bus. So that's the win. So I just hope that by the time he is grown and old enough, the fights are just easier that he's not fighting for his humanity as a little black boy. You know, he's not fighting to be able to walk the streets, tastefully. Uh, I hope, I honestly hope he's fighting over like how tall hedges community. I hope that he's like fighting over what trees we're planting, but to, you know, reduce the amount of, or to be able to track the most CO2. Speaker 4 01:07:06 Like those are the fights that I hope I won't be like naive enough to say there will be fights, but I just really hope that they're like at her height that affirm him and his humanity, because I don't want him to have to grow up to be an organizer. I want him to be a chef, a skateboarder, a Gardner, whatever he pleases it, but I don't want, I don't want him to have to make some of the same decisions I'm making about, do I need to go to city hall tonight and fight? Or can I just watch a TV show? Right. I want him to be able to watch TV shows whenever he wants. Speaker 3 01:07:38 Absolutely. You know, with the celebration of black history month, all about black liberation and freedom. And it really is at all levels. And when you speak about Nyeem and what you hope he can be free from, it is certainly an aspiration that I share. And I hope that is the case and let the fights be easier and let them not be about attacking him at his core. I know there are going to be listeners who are going to want to know how to get involved with the red, black, and green environmental justice coalition. Tell our listeners what the best way to be involved with. We have a Facebook Speaker 2 01:08:16 Page. So people have access to the Facebook and it's like our name red, black, and green environmental justice coalition. And they can also call us on this number. I'm going to give you area code nine one six four eight, four 50 25. It's a message number, leave a message, and someone will get back to you. And they can also go to our Facebook page and leave a message that way we always tell people, give us 24 hours because we were a group of volunteers. And, you know, it may take us a while to get to the message and be really specific is what you're looking for. Like, if you're looking for a speaker or are you looking for some resources? So check out our Facebook page because there's information there about books, organization, uh, there's presenting environmental justice from a black perspective. And so just when you contact those little, so exactly what you would like to do, if you just want to chit chat, that's fine too, but let us know. So we can build some time in our schedules to have that chit chat with you and everything. Speaker 3 01:09:14 Faye Faye. Now you let any other thoughts about just how we can recruit some additional activists. Speaker 2 01:09:21 Yeah, absolutely. So while we definitely would love involvement in red, black, and green environmental justice coalition, it also is just important to do what you can, where you can, um, cause can't stress that enough that, you know, I like to impose a flip one pancake role. I did have pancake breakfast once and I told them if you can just come and volunteer and flip on pancake, that's going to help, you know, my main pancake flipper. So whatever the one pancake is just to do it because it helps. And we need all hands on deck, even if it is just for that one moment that you're flipping that one pancake. It is helpful. Speaker 3 01:09:57 That's great. Thank you. Thank you. It has been really my pleasure to spend this time with both of you today. It is refreshing to have you provide ground truths. It's been refreshing to have you just be very sanguine about the experiences of our communities and Southeast Sacramento and even in North Sacramento, but more importantly to just share that each of us has the opportunity to do our part, to certainly lift up our communities. And I'm so grateful for that. This is not something we ought to be looking to others to do for us. Certainly each of us has something to offer him to bring to the table. And both of you have done beyond what I think anyone would reasonably expect that any individual could do. So thank you to both of you. That's very inspiring experiences, but more importantly for keeping up the fight and knowing that we are informed by our history as we continue to spite, but also know that there will be progress, albeit it may not be as Swift as we would like to see it. So thank you both very much for, Speaker 2 01:10:58 Oh, thank you very much for inviting us and having us. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 3 01:11:04 Thank you faith. Thank you. <inaudible> this is Betty signing off until the next Speaker 8 01:11:14 Episode of the California tape. Speaker 0 01:11:16 <inaudible> Speaker 8 01:11:52 Paid for by Betty Yee for treasurer 2026.